Here's a comparison of two players' stats in late and close situations this season.
Player A is batting .348 with 5 homeruns, 18 RBI, and an OPS of 1.168 in 55 plate appearances.
Player B is batting .233 with 0 homeruns, 1 RBI, and an OPS of .689 in 50 plate appearances.
Player B has a reputation for being one of the clutchest players in the history of the game. And if there is such a thing, I'd certainly agree. Player A has a reputation as being a stat padder, unable to get the big hit when it matters most.
That's right. You guessed it: Player A is Alex Rodriguez. Player B is David Ortiz.
Perhaps clutch is not a persistent character trait? Perhaps these numbers will be corrected by the end of the season. Perhaps, Baseball Reference is so much fun that I was bored this morning and figured I'd start some sh*t because the Yanks are within striking distance and the arrogance is returning. How 'bout them Bombers! I am reluctant to say this, but suddenly I believe again.
Subscribe to YFSF feed
Player B has been playing through injuries all season, still batting .320.
Player A is scum bag who cheats on his wife with she-males.
Nice to have the arrogance back, it wasn't the same without being able to hate Yankee fans.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 09:48 AM
likewise, you Sox fans were becoming way too likeable.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 09:52 AM
Maybe since you're only 6.5 back now, some Yankee fans will actually start posting here again. This 22 comment game threads were just sad.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 09:54 AM
kind of how it worked last fall. How easily we forget.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 09:55 AM
Team A is 61-40 and in first place.
Team B is 54-46 and 6.5 games out of first place.
Until Team B catches Team A, nothing else matters.
PS...That "Scumbag" may be your 3B next year! Will he then just be misunderstood?
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 09:58 AM
ah, Trisk, you're right, but that's no fun!
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:02 AM
Deep breath Lockland, you are getting a little fiesty today. That says 6.5, not 1.5.
No problem Nick, you are right fun is important as well. Plus it gets some panties in a bunch in the meantime!
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:05 AM
Horribly misunderstood, of course.
It's not so much the cheating that bothers me, it's his horrible taste in women.
Also, don't get me wrong, of course I would prefer a 14 game lead, but still, it's enjoyable to start getting the text messages again from my Yankee fan friends, frankly I was worried some of them were dead.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:05 AM
All in good fun Trisk, all in good fun.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:06 AM
I sent a text message to a Sox friend of mine last night. It went:
"Here's a comparison of two players' stats in late and close situations this season.
Player A is batting .348 with 5 homeruns, 18 RBI, and an OPS of 1.168 in 55 plate appearances.
Player B is batting .233 with 0 homeruns, 1 RBI, and an OPS of .689 in 50 plate appearances."
He called me to ask if everything was okay.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:09 AM
I was watching Baseball Tonight last night and they were going over possible Tex trade and for the Sox they suggested giving up Youk and some pitching prospects...
Would Boston fans go nuts or what??? I thought Youk was a fan fave?
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:11 AM
Where's the "class comment" comment from Quo?
Posted by: Lar | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:18 AM
No way they move Youk in that deal, fan favorite or not, the guy can literally play every position and he gets on base, with some power. It would be stupid to let him go.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:20 AM
speaking of Tex, I imagine most Yanks fans are in agreement, that we shouldn't move Joba in a deal for him. What about Kennedy? I'd be mighty tempted considering the dearth of first basemen available via free agency and in our system. Are Ehlers, Miranda et al still viable replacements in the future?
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:24 AM
If it's Kennedy and someone replaceable, sure. If it's Kennedy and Cano, which I imagine it would be, I would pass. I like Tex, but not for a 2B and a young SP.
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:26 AM
.... More Days in First Place .... More Days in First Place
Posted by: Westboro - YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:29 AM
The thing is even if it's Kennedy I kind of like having a new Big 3 a la the Oakland 3. But if it's just Kennedy and a couple of mid-level prospects, then obviosuly you have to make that trade. It's probably not going to be that easy though.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Keep Kennedy and Joba! Please! Put them with Hughes and Wang and that's 4/5ths of the rotation, all cheap and home growed! and maybe even good. Then we can afford to pay Alex 50 jazillion dollars, and bring back clemens for win 400. take the long view.
also, remember that the yanks basically have a game in hand due to the o's postponement.
Posted by: YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Few things that concern me...
One, Joba's arm issues, let's not annoint him JC just yet.
Two, I am not convinced that Kennedy is even in the same class as the other 2 (Hughes and Joba).
Three, we have zero at 1B. Tex can play defense, hit and is young...
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:38 AM
speaking of Tex, I imagine most Yanks fans are in agreement, that we shouldn't move Joba in a deal for him. What about Kennedy...
Have we all lost our collective minds? You move players for a player like Tex EIGHT days a week. You don't keep what you don't know is good for something that you absolutely know is. Tex is gold glover who absolutely rakes and is in the prime of his playing days.
If they want Youk, so be it. It's not like Youkilis is going to be cheap to hold onto after he's up, and Tex puts whatever team that gets him in solid hands at first base for the next six or seven years.
You don't keep a prospect if that's what you could get.
Posted by: Brad | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:42 AM
Yeah, I've heard and read similar things about Kennedy compared to the other two. Kevin Goldstein, for instance, projects him as #3 or #4 innings-eater. But Goldstein has kind of been wrong about Kennedy since the draft, so who knows? Certainly the scouts don' tthink his "stuff" matched theirs. But, YF, I kind of feel the same way as you. It'd be awesome to lock up 4/5 of the rotation at such a cheap rate.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:43 AM
Brad, you'd trade Bucholz for Tex? Keep in mind that Tex's home-road splits are pretty different. He's been helped big-time by playing in Texas.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:45 AM
Does anyone have Tex's Fenway numbers handy?
Nick, you seem to have some time on your hands, mind looking that up real quick?
Just for giggles, you can do it for Yankee Stadium too.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 10:59 AM
You know what though, the more I look at it, I say screw Teixeira, Youk is almost as good now and could become better than him.
Bird in the hand.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Tex is a career .209 hitter at Fenway with a slugging percentage of .293. He has 75 plate appearances there.
At Yankee Stadium he is a .308 hitter with a .527 slugging percentage in 95 plate appearances
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:07 AM
1978!
Cautious optimism ftw.
Posted by: KurticusMaximus- YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:12 AM
Not too worried here. The Yankees just reeled off six straight wins and gained one game in the standings.
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:29 AM
Not sure whether I want Tex, thanks to those home/road splits. Really, I'd be happy with a Bobby Kielty or some similar smaller move to shore up the bench. I suspect that he will be this year's Alfonso Soriano, where Jon Daniels sits back and asks way too much and a trade never gets done. The big difference, of course, is that Daniels has all next year to trade him too.
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:34 AM
yes, clearly a 3 month sample > 4 year sample, especially when you don't take career postseason numbers into account. A-ROD IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN DAVID ORTIZ! WHY DIDN'T I SEE IT BEFORE???
thank you for helping me see the light, nick. :)
Posted by: beth | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:41 AM
it's funny that soxfans are now talking sample size and taking career post-season numbers into account when talking of A-Rod.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:48 AM
Regarding Tex: you don't get him longterm. you get him for 1.5 years and then have to negotiate with boras for what will be an enormous payday. next year he makes 9 million, which is not chump change. saying you trade kennedy for tex straight up 8 days a week might work in rotoworld, but it's the kind of thing that both teams might reject: texas might want something more proven, and the yanks might want to retain a potential quality starter they control at league minimum. if kennedy pans out, they might be better off holding him and grabbing Tex down the line, once Giambi is off the books, and with the money saved by having so many league-minimum starters. that means finding a lower cost solution to 1b between now and then. maybe they have that in house, or maybe it's available for a lot lower cost. a trade of tex for kennedy is an economic double-whammy for the yanks. they add 1 big salary at first, and then they have another big salary that they're (possibly) going to have to fill in the rotation. this has to be balanced with the potential revenue that might be expected from the addition of tex over the next couple of years. not an easy decision.
Posted by: YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Brad, you'd trade Bucholz for Tex? Keep in mind that Tex's home-road splits are pretty different. He's been helped big-time by playing in Texas.
In a nanosecond. Provided he'll extend. If not, then this is a different argument altogether. Would I trade what appears to be very good prospects for a rental? No way, but if a deal can be worked out for, say, four or five years - absolutely.
The Red Sox have a very nice core of young pitchers right now, a few veterans mixed in would service that role adequately. Granted, guys like Kennedy, Joba, and Clay are projected as great, but Tex already is - on both sides of the ball. He is a brick wall at first, and he can change the game with one swing at any time.
I'm biased though, because after Beckett and A-Rod, Tex is one of my personal favorites.
Moving Youk doesn't make that much sense though, unless Lowell is offering a nice discount for a few years. What you gain with Tex is only going to be nulled by who plays stop gap at third next year.
Who know. My guess is that he stays in Texas unless he agrees to work on a contract with the suiter.
Posted by: | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Me.
On another note, I firmly believe that if either the Yanks or the Sox get Tex, then there is no way that A-Rod ends up on that same team next year.
Posted by: Brad | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Catching up is the important thing. If they can do it, Arod will likely help them do it (whereas Papi does not look like he will contribute down the stretch to the '07 Red Sox). I WANT to believe. I want this to continue; seeing all cylinders firing is terrific. But, for the next step, I want to see this confident, run-accumulating play - and 7-inning perfs by our starting pitchers, and the marginally improving bullpen - against REAL TEAMS. Yankees are doing precisely what they should be doing: beating up on the subpar teams. They're in the midst of this cakewalk, and it's great to see, but I fear we fans are getting used to it. Take 2-of-3 from Cleveland, Seattle, Boston, Detroit, and then my arrogance & sense of postseason entitlement will rumble awake, and I'll start taunting my SF friends again via text message about the inevitable march to October.
Posted by: jwright40-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:18 PM
> a 3 month sample > 4 year sample
Choice of sample set and the language used to argue a case with that sample set as evidence can lead to such a perversion of truth that it doesn't go far enough to call it a "lie". Hence the popular idiom regarding statistics. Please don't think I'm calling Nick or Beth a liar (or worse).
Baseball-reference is a resource that I, like Nick, am totally enamored with and is one of the greatest productivity vortexes ever created for a nerd like me. The close-late statistic is only available for this season so if you want to do longer term comparisons, it requires a little more effort to come up with some digits, but I don't need to look it up yet again to know that the answer to the age-old question of "who do I want at the plate, Papi or Arod, when the game is on the line" for me is, and always will be, "depends on who is pitching."
Posted by: attackgerbil | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:26 PM
This stat is interesting because it proves what all Sox fans have noticed this season: the lack of clutch hitting not just by Papi but by the entire team.
However, despite Papi's low numbers we're still 6 games (I'm counting the Yanks continuation game against the Orioles a win) up on the Yankees and our pitching seems to be getting better every day.
However, here are both players' postseason numbers:
AROD: Batting .280 with 6 homeruns, 16 RBI's and an OPS of .860 in 132 at-bats.
Ortiz: Batting .301 with 8 homeruns, 32 RBI's and an OPS of .935 in 143 at-bats.
So Ortiz has twice as many RBI's, a higher batting average and a couple more homeruns. And I think we all know how ARod's on field performance--cough ARROYO SLAP cough--can bring the entire team down.
And to defend Papi with regards the 2007 season, he's batting a career-high .320 in a year where he's had both knee and shoulder problems.
Posted by: Atheose - SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:39 PM
Actually, Teixeira is average as a glove (career RATE = 101, FRAA = 0). And at 27, he's only going to getting worse (FRAA in 2007 = -5). By 30 he could very well be a very light hitting DH.
Unless you believe the Gold Glove argument also applies to Jeter...
Posted by: Woosta YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 12:39 PM
also the very IDEA of trading buccholz for texeira makes me have to wash my mind out with soap. not saying i wouldn't consider other trades for tex, but not buccholz.
Posted by: beth | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 01:50 PM
I also would not trade Buchholz for Tex.
Meanwhile this statement made me laugh:
(whereas Papi does not look like he will contribute down the stretch to the '07 Red Sox).
What an amazing coincidence, considering Jeter, A-Rod and Posada all look like they will not contribute down the stretch for the Yankees.
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 02:18 PM
Sounds like Papi is having similar problems to several of the former steroid users....what does that say about his past??
Posted by: UNCYankee | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 02:18 PM
"but I don't need to look it up yet again to know that the answer to the age-old question of "who do I want at the plate, Papi or Arod, when the game is on the line" for me is, and always will be, "depends on who is pitching.""
I completely agree with this sentiment, and my posting these numbers is really just a way to point fun at some of the people who have been anti-A-Rod in the past, and to stir up conversation. The rivalry is heating up as the come-back Bombers continue their surge with come-back kid Andy Phillips leading the way. That's actually how YES is promoting the Yanks these days, with Andy as the face of the franchise--at least in one commercial I caught.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 02:26 PM
Here are some rumors for you...
*Yankees are shopping Damon (Braves have some interest)
*Yankees AND the Sox are in on the Ty Wiggington sweepstakes.
*Farnsworth could be on his way back to the Motor City.
Posted by: John - YF (Trisk) | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:04 PM
Sounds like Papi is having similar problems to several of the former steroid users
Sounds like being a couple games above .500 brings out the ass in a lot of Yankee fans.
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:21 PM
//Sounds like Papi is having similar problems to several of the former steroid users//
I had to get up from my office here at work, walk to the opposite side of the building to get a drink of water and then walk back to keep from furiously typing every dirty word I know.
So now that I'm calm and relaxed, I have just two words for you: Jason Giambi.
Posted by: Atheose - SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:28 PM
To add to Trisk's Rumor Mill:
Atlanta has moved up in talks to acquire Texeira from Texas. What Atlanta can offer, besides competitive Dog-fighting, is beyond me. Zing!
Posted by: walein | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:31 PM
The Yankees Have Great Awesomeness!
Posted by: Westboro - YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:45 PM
Varitek, now healthy, still isn't coming close to his SLG from 2003-2005.
Hmmmm.....
Posted by: Woosta YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:51 PM
I think I liked Yankee fans better when they were feeling meek, humiliated and defeated.
Posted by: mouse - SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:53 PM
Please, let's not rehash the ol' "Ortiz did steroids" nonsense. It's inflammatory and pointless.
Posted by: yankeemonkey | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 03:54 PM
Varitek, now healthy, still isn't coming close to his SLG from 2003-2005.
Hmmmm.....
Yeah, hmmm is right.
Now I know who this is! ha.
Posted by: | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:09 PM
Woosta, not sure your point. I think I know what you're insinuating, but that's pretty ludicrous. Considering Varitek's on the wrong side of 30, that only makes sense that his power would rop off. Maybe we should be looking at the aging catchers who are in the midst of career seasons, hmm?
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:10 PM
*drop* off, that is...
Posted by: Paul SF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:11 PM
please let us follow YM"s lead and not respond to baseless steroid accusations.
Posted by: Nick-YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:55 PM
Paul,
Methinks you're feeding the Varitek hater. The Ortiz thing was just a conversation starter to allow him to get to his real passion: Varitek. Still stopping by.
Posted by: Brad | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:57 PM
Hey I have a big head and can't hit in the clutch.
Doesn't mean I've stopped taking the roids.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Posted by: Westboro - YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 04:58 PM
Unreal, I almost forgot why I hated most Yankee fans so much, thanks for the reminder guys.
I bet the real Yankee fans here are really excited that a little climb back in to the race has brought that jackasses back out of the woodwork.
You're still 6.5 out guys, get a grip.
Posted by: LocklandSF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 05:25 PM
So silly.
Me, I've been not-predicting the death of the Yankees for months, and their climb back into it has me utterly unsurprised.
What does have me surprised is that, recently, the Sox have done a decent job of holding them off...while the Sox are playing the Indians and the Yankees are playing the Royals.
Posted by: Devine | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 05:34 PM
Lockland, by 'guys', you mean 'guy', who no one else is endorsing. Just ignore him.
On a different topic, who else is starting to find Dustin Pedroia really fricking irritating? He gets hit on his side by an inside pitch last night, and instead of taking his base like a grown man, takes his time to literally mouth out the pitcher, looking visibly incensed as he walks down to first, and pretty much throws a hissy fit. Next time he's up, Carmona gives him some well-deserved chin music, and boy oh boy that REALLY sets him off. Even the umpire got pissed at him.
Angry midgets are only funny in circuses, guy.
Posted by: AndrewYF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 05:41 PM
Me? I didn't say anything about Papi. He at least had his first power surge when he was 27 (not 31 years old). And he sustained it when testing began.
Posted by: Woosta YF | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 06:26 PM
LocklandSF - you say you hate most Yankees fans, but the first thing you said was to inflame the conversation by making no real arguments but "he's a scumbag". Good job.
Posted by: Lar | Thursday, July 26, 2007 at 06:47 PM
On a different topic, who else is starting to find Dustin Pedroia really fricking irritating? He gets hit on his side by an inside pitch last night, and instead of taking his base like a grown man, takes his time to literally mouth out the pitcher, looking visibly incensed as he walks down to first, and pretty much throws a hissy fit. Next time he's up, Carmona gives him some well-deserved chin music, and boy oh boy that REALLY sets him off. Even the umpire got pissed at him.
Angry midgets are only funny in circuses, guy.
Our second baseman is a chirper, perhaps a little too enthusiastic, yours is smug and cocky, with an obnoxious air of entitlement. How about we call it even at that position?
Posted by: SF | Sunday, July 29, 2007 at 06:38 AM