BREAKING: Sox Win Payment for Coaches, End Boycott

Update: MLB has relented and agreed to pay the stipend to coaches, training staff and support staff from both teams, according to the Boston Herald's Rob Bradford, speaking on WEEI.

From the Boston Globe:

Red Sox third baseman Mike Lowell confirmed to the Globe that the team voted unanimously this morning not to make the scheduled trip to Japan or play its final spring training game against Toronto this afternoon unless the coaches, training staff, and equipment staff were going to be compensated for making the trip to Japan.

''When we voted to go to Japan, that was not a unanimous vote,'' said Lowell, "but we did what our team wanted us to do for Major League Baseball. They promised us the moon and the stars, and then when we committed, they started pulling back. It's not just the coaches, it's the staff, the trainers, a lot of people are affected by this.

"I'm so super proud of this team. When we put it to a vote it was unanimous, we're all in agreement that we're not going to put up with this.''

Manager Terry Francona had told Red Sox coaches thay'd be getting a $40,000 stipend, then discovered otherwise. Curt Schilling says he was involved with negotiations on the issue, and insists there was an agreement in place to pay the coaches. Talks apparently are ongoing.

Considering the exhibition game is scheduled to start right now, I guess we'll see what happens.

Update: NESN and WEEI are reporting the Athletics have also voted to boycott the trip if the coaches aren't paid.

Comments

[Brad..]

It's over.
The Red Sox have taken the field against Toronto.
Whatever the solution, I bet the coaches are getting paid one way or the other.

[Paul SF]

I'm curious if the club agreed to pay the coaches itself, which would explain why Theo was involved in talks.

[Brad..]

Good for the Red Sox for standing up for the coaches.
Thumbs down for LoHud, who seemingly lost his mind today while posting about this. But, I guess when you post to that crowd, you find whatever pun and button pushing remark you can come up with to keep them coming back.

[Brad..]

Somehow spinning this into a rebuttal to Theo's comments about the Japan trip, when Theo had absolutely nothing to do with the team sitting down, is irresponsible. But, I was expecting it anyhow.

[A YF]

I suppose this isn't "bitching" either :)

[Paul SF]

The Herald has some better-written info, making it clear the Sox had agreed to the stipend with MLB, and that other teams in previous Japan appearances had received the stipend for their coaches.

So it looks the Sox are completely in the right, and MLB is completely in the wrong.

[LocklandSF]

No, it's not A YF, but I'm sure the Yankee players in 2004 just didn't give a crap about the coaches, trainers and support staff that were getting stiffed.

[Brad..]

No, it most certainly is. But there is a huge difference between what the Red Sox did this morning, and what LoHud portrayed. Again, it's to be expected from him.

[Paul SF]

Apparently, the players are in the dugout, but not on the field.

Listening to the EEI feed on XM, and they're saying they don't know if the game will start; it "certainly won't start on time."

[A YF]

Well, Lowell does readily point out that the original vote [on whether to go to Japan] wasn't unanimous. Now somehow all of the players wanting to back out because their coaches aren't getting bonuses is a sign of positivity for the trip?

This bitchin' controversy really is a gift that keeps giving. They haven't even lost any games yet! :)

[Brad..]

Constiglione just said that it was between the players and MLB, and that the Red Sox front office had absolutely nothing to say in the matter beyond asking what the problem was.
Now, it appears that the Red Sox team has left the field and went back to the duggout. They only came out for the Anthem, then went back in.
So, apparently this isn't resolved.
Varitek has said that they're not playing until MLB agrees to pay the coaches.

[Brad..]

They're not bitching over going, A. You're making up stuff to push buttons.
If they pay the coaches, the Red Sox play. That's not bitching about going to Japan in any way whatsoever.
Hank is the gift that keeps on giving; this is a team standing up for their coaches and other support staff.

[A YF]

Ah, yes, the Sox are in the right here even as they're demanding to be treated differently than every other team.

And yes the Yanks are the selfish ones, one day after visiting VT - something that got exactly zero positive commentary here.

[Paul SF]

Pete Abe is getting skewered by his own commenters for that hideous post of his.

That's far and away the worst piece of trash I've ever seen on his blog. He should be ashamed of himself.

Sox will be go and sign autographs for fans if the game isn't started by 12:30. Matsuzaka is going to start in a minor-league game, so he can still get his work in.

[Brad..]

The Blue Jays have once again entered the duggout as if the game is going to take place. The Red Sox are also in the duggout as if the game is going to take place.
Who's pitching this game if it happens?

[A YF]

Seriously, the Sox front office is staying out of this? Even as 500k from them clears up the "problem" (wholly created by their players).

[LocklandSF]

Also, Brad, it's pretty cleat that Pete A over at LoHud was joking, even most of the people that have written comments support the Red Sox actions over there. Which is odd, because they are some of worst Yankee fans usually.

[Paul SF]

According to the Herald (via Terry Francona), the Yankee coaches were paid in 2004, A, so you can shut your flame-baiting trap now.

[Brad..]

Yes. The Virginia Tech thing. That was awesome of them to do. Should they get a medal? Perhaps honorary doctorates to all the players who agreed to play? Maybe a huge NY in center field hand crafted from the finest woods available on this Yankee planet.
Game is delayed until 12:30 per the PA announcer at the game.

[LocklandSF]

A YF, you really don't get it do you? It's not just about the money, it's about MLB keeping their promises. Jesus man, open your eyes.

[A YF]

Were the A's coaches scheduled to get paid this year?

[Paul SF]

Didn't read like joking to me, Lockland. Paritularly the false equivalency between Theo's "bitching" comment and the vote taken today...

Varitek says: "There are a lot of things that have gone on and have fallen by the wayside a little bit, and this really can'y."

Sounds like the agreement with MLB has changed in more ways than one, and this was the last straw.

[Brad..]

Man, I'm sorry I missed the humor then. To me, he was appealing to the knuckle draggers.

[A YF]

Promises? Why is it that the A's coaches were not promised to get paid? So the Sox got it wrong, but they're right?

[Brad..]

A YF, you really don't get it do you?

No, he gets it just fine. But getting it, and being able to take it for face value are two completely different things. Hence, the 500K statement which hasn't been reported anywhere.

[Brad..]

How do you know that? How do we know what the A's are doing right now? Are they on the plane to Japan? Maybe they just don't care about their coaches?

[Paul SF]

I wonder if each team negotiated separately. It sounds like the Sox negotiated the $40,000, and when the A's said they weren't getting any, it made Francona double check.

Billy Beane was informed of the boycott by the Globe, and then apparently (based on the way the story's written) was asked when the A's knew the coaches wouldn't get paid:

"I first found out about it yesterday when I dinner with my manager Bob Geren, and he told me about it," Beane said. "I think everyone on our staff, from what I was told was disappointed. I think that's safe to say."

So it looks like both teams were blindsided by this.

[A YF]

It's simple math, really:

12 coaches x 40k = 500k

You really think they have any more than 12 coaches and staff intricately tied to on-field operations?

Seriously, I get "it" just fine. For a team that was manning up for this trip, we're hearing an awful lot about it.

[Atheose]

A YF, the Sox players are backing up their coaches and trainers, most of whom could really use the $40,000. Your team's coaches and trainers were paid for their trip in 2004, so your opinion that the Red Sox are 'bitching' is pretty silly.

If the Yanks were stiffed one year you bet your ass the Yankees players would defend their staff.

[Paul SF]

For a team that was manning up for this trip, we're hearing an awful lot about it.

Yes, because they're standing up for guys who get paid as little as $30,000 per year. Those evil, evil Red Sox. I guess when you root for the Yankees, screwing the little guy just isn't as big a deal to you. (here's my winky face so you can't respond to that: ;-)

Players have left the dugout.

[Atheose]

Also, considering the $40K has always been given in the past, it's not unreasonable to say that both teams probably assumed that they would still be getting it. This is like Clark Griswold's boss not giving out the Christmas bonuses in Christmas Vacation!

[Paul SF]

EEI confirms that Billy Beane also didn't know his coaches weren't being paid until last night.

[LocklandSF]

A YF, you're so wrong it's absurd, even most of the knuckle dragging idiots at LoHud see this for what it is, how could you be so blind?

[Atheose]

Good call Paul. If a certain payment is given out consistently in the past, it's not unreasonable to assume that it would continue to be paid. I wonder, were the Padres' and Dodgers' employees paid for their recent trip to China?

Considering how much revenue MLB has gained over the last

[Atheose]

Good call Paul. If a certain payment is given out consistently in the past, it's not unreasonable to assume that it would continue to be paid. I wonder, were the Padres' and Dodgers' employees paid for their recent trip to China?

Considering how much revenue MLB has gained over the last few years I'm shocked that they would cut back on something like this.

[Brad..]

Oh I get the math, A. It's the idea you followed it with that's LoHudish.

[Paul SF]

Incidentally, this reminds me of the 1918 World Series, when players found out the league was splitting their World Series shares among far more teams than in the past. (Of course, players were paid so little back then that was actually a big deal). The Red Sox threatened to strike the remainder of the World Series, and tried to negotiate with ownership and a plastered AL President Ban Johnson.

Fans booed and didn't understand the reasons for the delay (considering the players greedy), and eventually the players agreed to play. with just a delay in one of the games.

[Atheose]

A YF is just looking for any justification to point fingers at the Red Sox. If roles were reversed I think most of us SF's would applaud the Yankees for sticking up for their coaches and trainers.

According to the article:

"Sox player representative Kevin Youkilis spent time during the pre-game hours discussing the situation with Vernon Wells, who holds the same position for the Blue Jays."

Since when has Youk been the "Player representative"?

[Brad..]

Matsuzaka is going to pitch a minor league game today instead of this last game, so that's one bullet missed.
John Lester isn't traveling to Japan with the team, but rather keeping him on scedule he's going to pitch a game here tomorrow, then join them later over there.

[Paul SF]

Also, according to the Sox players, they weren't assuming the coaches would be paid. They actually negotiated the payment into the agreement to go to Japan. So, really, it's just a matter of contract law, isn't it? MLB broke their agreement, thus the Sox are under no obligation to go to Japan -- which might make it a challenge for MLB to force a forfeit of those two games.

[Micah-SF]

Exactly, Atheose. This isn't about the Red Sox players getting paid - sure, $40K is always nice, but it's chump change to Manny and even Dustin and the rest of the pre-arbitration crew wouldn't miss it that much. But for the coaches, it's a really significant amount of money, especially given the current state of the economy - most of them aren't getting paid anywhere near what Francona is, let alone someone like Manny.

If MLB actually promised the coaches $40K and then backed out of it, I'd frankly be disappointed in the team if they didn't do something like this, and I'd expect the Yankees to do the same. There is no reason for an organization with the resources of Major League Baseball to be this cheap about the coaching staff of two teams it's pushing across the ocean to promote the sport, and they should not be allowed to get away with promising a whole bunch of crap and then backing out at the last minute.

[Atheose]

Interesting, Brad. Poor Lester, getting left behind and having to travel 18 hours by himself!

[Atheose]

Dave Magadan:

"To see how the players backed us and how they feel about the work that we do, that meant a lot," Magadan said. "It means a lot. Sometimes we feel like you can have a thankless job, but when things like that are done, you really appreciate and get a feeling for how the players feel about us."

A YF, I suppose you still feel this is just about the team "bitching" about having to go to Japan? Right?

[Micah-SF]

Apparently MLB also backed out of allowing families to come on the trip, and the A's are considering joining in the boycott.

[A YF]

"Yes, because they're standing up for guys who get paid as little as $30,000 per year."

Right cause this is the only time we've heard about the Sox ahaving problems with the trip.

"If roles were reversed I think most of us SF's would applaud the Yankees for sticking up for their coaches and trainers."

Just like so many of you applauded the VT visit yesterday.

[Paul SF]

NESN and EEI reporting the A's also voted to boycott.

[LocklandSF]

Just reported, A's agree to boycott too.

So suck on that A YF!

[Paul SF]

So, A, does this qualify as Oakland "bitching" about the trip, as well? Never mind. No need to answer. You've lost any shred of credibility you had on this site.

[Atheose]

A YF, will you shut up about the VT thing? If you want to complain about the VT trip not being mentioned on the site, blame one of the YF admins for not putting up a thread. You're somehow attributing that to the SF's on this site, and it just makes you look more like a horse's ass.

Also, you keep saying that we've heard a lot of bitching about the Japan trip. Can you give me one source? Just one? Seriously, you sound more and more rediculous every day.

[A YF]

Yup, much easier yesterday to debate A-Rod - again.

All I'm saying is that for a team that's been told to "Cowboy Up" about this trip, the different stories just keep showing up. Worse for their projected "toughness", this isn't the first time two teams have opened in Japan ;)

[Micah-SF]

Yes, A YF, they weren't happy about it (and there's no way in hell all the Yankees fans were happy about it either), but they were actually going to go. Until MLB decided to screw the coaches and trainers.

Also, your "waaaaah, waaaaaaaah, you didn't all show up to lavish praise on our team for the good thing we did so I'm going to sneer at your team for the good things they're doing" schtick is getting really old and does nothing but make you look like a whiny troll.

[A YF]

"Yes, because they're standing up for guys who get paid as little as $30,000 per year."

Who's fault is this?

Man, there's still a lot of anger in RSN. Sad really. I say we're hearing a lot about this trip, and I get attacked, viscously, left and right. Meanwhile, I've never come close treating anyone here like that. Good job fellas.

[Paul SF]

A, this is a final warning. You are willfully flaming this thread. If you do not stop immediately, we will be forced to remove your comments. You've made your points. Unless you have something new to add to this conversation, you need to be quiet.

[Micah-SF]

Er, 'all Yankees players' were happy about it.

Anyway, good to hear the A's voted unanimously to join in this as well. MLB should be ashamed of itself.

[Atheose]

All I'm saying is that for a team that's been told to "Cowboy Up" about this trip, the different stories just keep showing up. Worse for their projected "toughness", this isn't the first time two teams have opened in Japan ;)

Once again you're making broad generalizations based on ZERO fact. All I want is one link, one source. Give us some proof that the Red Sox have been complaining and maybe, for once, we won't immediately think that you're flamebaiting.

[Paul SF]

Ignore the troll, gentlemen. Ignore the troll.

[LocklandSF]

A YF, you have finally proven beyond a shadow of doubt that are total and complete ass.

[Atheose]

Kudos to Oakland joining in the boycott. Now that this isn't just a one team sit-in I think MLB caves.

[A YF]

Take a deep breath and count to 10 fellas. You're world champions.

[AndrewYF]

All we have are the players' opinions on the matter, which are obviously going to be biased. We know absolutely nothing for a fact. Let's just all back off until actual concrete information is released, eh?

However, A YF is right on one account: several Red Sox players have publicly stated their displeasure about going on the trip. Theo was a fool for talking trash about a player then, and is twice the fool now that some of his players also have voiced their displeasure (this was before the boycott issue was even thought of). I think we can all agree on that.

[Paul SF]

Also, if both teams boycott, it looks like a forfeit isn't likely -- unless both teams start off 0-2 (which would be odd, to say the least).

[sam-YF]

I support what the Sox and A's did here and Id expect the yankees would have done the same.

To say the yankees didnt give a crap in 2004 seems like a cheap shot to me. Is there any proof for this?

Also, anything but praise for what the yankees did by going up to VT yesterday just isnt right. It was a great thing to do and the organization and the players should be applauded for it. You dont have to like the time but it was a great gesture on their part. There is no reason to conflate it with this situation either....

[Paul SF]

several Red Sox players have publicly stated their displeasure about going on the trip

This is completely untrue. The closest they've come is saying they'd rather not make the trip (and I believe only one or two has even said that), but that they're fine with going and understand the importance of doing it. That's far from "displeasure".

And there is frankly no rational connection to be made with such a sentiment and standing up for your coaches and support staff -- particularly now that both teams have done it.

[AndrewYF]

True, Paul. Perhaps there will be games added to the schedule.

[AndrewYF]

"This is completely untrue. The closest they've come is saying they'd rather not make the trip"

Which is precisely what expressing displeasure means. They understand the importance of it and will go, but are publicly telling the media they are not happy about it. Can we just agree that Theo was outrageously foolish for calling out Mussina?

[LocklandSF]

You morons, even Theo admits it was a foolish thing to say and he immidiately apologized for it.

Hank, on the other hand, says stupid and foolish things every day and NEVER apologizes for it.

How do you not see the difference?

[Atheose]

Lowell's quote was meant to show the team's solidarity behind the coaches and trainers, not to emphasize that people were unhappy about going to Japan.

And for the record, voting against a trip to Japan and "publicly complaining about it" are two completely different things. If I had to choose between going to Japan and playing all of my games in the States, I would vote for the latter too. There's no connection between voting against it and complaining about it.

[AndrewYF]

Even if MLB is completely in the wrong, boycotting the trip is precisely the wrong way to go about it. Guess what happens if you don't go? Oh right, the coaches don't get their money anyway.

Both teams should have dealt with this internally. Have the FO pay the coaches the extra money, and then file a suit against MLB later. That way everyone gets what they want. The way it is happening, is just escalating an issue that could have been resolved peacefully. It's a laudable sentiment and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it's absolutely the wrong way to go about it.

[Paul SF]

Can we just agree that Theo was outrageously foolish for calling out Mussina?

We've already agreed on that, Andrew. Now, I don't feel like going to work in an hour, but I don't mind going. I don't feel any particular displeasure in it.

Bradford on EEI says MLB has relented.

[Paul SF]

Oh right, the coaches don't get their money anyway

Andrew, the money is to offset the inconvenience for the coaches to go to Japan. Your point there is moot.

[Atheose]

MLB stands to make a LOT of money from the Sox-A's trip to Japan from ticket revenue, merchandising and publicity. They'll fork over the money for the coaches and trainers.

[TJ]

first pitch at 1:10

[Paul SF]

Bradford reporting the Blue Jays are also in support of the Red Sox boycott.

[Atheose]

Except that's exactly what he did emphasize,

No, again it was to emphasize the solidarity of the players on the current issue, not one that occured months ago. I think the vast majority of us took that quote that way, which is the way Lowell meant it.

Jesus man, I hate the Yankees but even I'm not biased to purposefully misinterpret quotes.

[Atheose]

Sorry Paul, I'll stop responding to him too.

[krueg]

Don't worry about it A...this board has taken a decided turn to the dark side. I get what you are saying and it really equates to our ARod argument on the other post. We are always wrong/evil/stupid/etc...Sox fans are always right/good/brilliant. Give me a break.

Then for the SF mod to tell you to shut up when you are just arguing your point, no name calling, no personal attacks...wow.

[AndrewYF]

"Andrew, the money is to offset the inconvenience for the coaches to go to Japan. Your point there is moot."

I'm going to hazard a guess that when it comes down to not going to Japan and not getting $40K, and going to Japan for a week and getting $40K, a person who probably makes that in a year will take the latter option every time.

[Atheose]

Krueg, I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but I don't flame every thread with anti-Yankee babble whenever I get a chance. That's all we want.

[krueg]

Atheose: so anyone that has a differing opinion of a situation is instantly flaming?

[Micah-SF]

Herald's reporting the players are taking the field soon and that they got what they wanted. Looks like it worked.

[Paul SF]

For the record, YFSF mods have deleted comments and banned posters of both fanbases for doing exactly what A YF did in this thread -- taking an absurdly illogical point and continuing to argue it to the detriment of one thread in particular and the site in general.

A has been warned multiple times in multiple threads over the past several months -- by both SF and YF mods -- for exactly what he did today. It's a tried and true tactic to antagonize your opposition with specious, belligerent arguments, then backing away asking, "What did I do?" when those arguments achieve the desired reaction. This is not an acceptable practice here and will be dealt with swiftly.

[krueg]

Paul: "taking an absurdly illogical point and continuing to argue it to the detriment of one thread in particular and the site in general."

Seems to me he stated his opinion, and was blasted for it because Sox fans took exception.

If the Sox players are so concerned about the staff/coaches, which I have no doubt they are, why not donate a share of their sizeable stipends to pay coaches and staff? I get the "solidarity" thing but I would be pissed if a bunch of millionaires boycotted some games because of money...Yankees included.

[A YF]

And now my IP has been banned...

Wow. Have fun with the likes of Lockland.

[AndrewYF]

Agreed kreug. I would be horrified at the Yankees for boycotting a trip due to money concerns they could easily resolve themselves. The act of boycotting, while showing support for the coaches, would show absolutely zero support for the fans that put their lives on hold to root for the team, and for the US Army base who was expecting to see real American baseball being played. Even though it worked out, it was not the right way to go about it.

[LocklandSF]

OH MY GOD!

Krueg, this has almost nothing to do with the money, this has to do with MLB backing out of it's promises.

Incidently, the As agreed and the Blue Jays agreed and now it looks like MLB has agreed.

[Atheose]

I agree Krueg: that was my first thought when I heard about all of this, that the players should give their share of the $40,000 to the coaches and trainers. That's what I would do if I was Manny or Papi.

But it's not just about money, it's about MLB honouring their verbal contract. I suppose if the players paid for the coaches and trainers it would set a precedence of MLB not having to stay to its word.

[Atheose]

Good point Andrew, thinking about their visit to the US base in Japan makes me a little torn inside. Crappy situation all around. Glad MLB gave in quickly and painlessly.

[Micah-SF]

kreug: They could do that, and I'm sure it was discussed, but I don't think that would've been the right solution. Again, MLB promised this money to the coaches and trainers, and allowing them to back out of it at the last minute is a travesty and sets an absolutely terrible precedent, especially for future trips like this (what happens if, say, the Marlins were going on something like this - you think Loria or a team making an average salary of $500K is going to cover expenses for the whole staff?).

It's not okay for MLB to promise a whole bunch of stuff to get people to agree to something and then back out of most of it at the last minute once they have the agreement - and if they had to be publicly shamed into keeping their promises with a threatened boycott, so be it. I'm not sure it gets much clearer than that.

[Atheose]

Coco and Lugo are back in the lineup today. Aardsma walks one but that's the only blemish on the first inning.

[rootbeerfloat]

Nice play at the plate there.

[Atheose]

What happened? I'm at work and only have the box score. I see that Coco has an outfield assist.

Brian Corey has REALLY impressed me, both at the end of last season and so far in spring training. He should be a valuable bullpen arm.

[krueg]

I agree with you guys that MLB should honor their committment... (which I guess they did)

Lock: it has everything to do with money. Money was the main issue...the whole point actually. I guess we will never see eye to eye!

This thread was kinda brutal though in my opinion. Not to beat a dead horse but am I going to get banned if I have a contrary opinion on something Sox related?

[LocklandSF]

Krueg, A's fist post in this thread, the 5th total post, was not an opinion or an argument, it was blatant flame baiting and he never stopped.

That's completely different from holding an opposing opinion or have a constructive argument.

[sf rod]

first off, the visit to VTech yesterday was touching. XM 175 ran some great interviews of the kids on the team. whether it's yesterdays game or the visit to Walter Reed, it's good to see major leaguers seeing the bigger picture.

forcing the MLB to abide by their own agreement isn't exactly the same as randy and the moose complaining about bad food and jet lag. if MLB wants teams to be ambassadors of baseball abroad to generate new revenue streams, they should hold up their end of the bargain.

sadly it seems alot of YF's around these parts are claiming the site has become sox-centric. i can see where they are coming from, but it's part of the ebb and flow. give it a month. i've learned more from the likes of DC and Ironhorse (RIP) about the yanks and my own personal biases than i care to admit.

[Paul SF]

Krueg, your arguments have not even approached the level we saw here earlier. One can disagree without baiting; I trust you know where that line is. Actually, I think we all know where that line is. It's just a matter of which side we choose to stand on. You and most everyone else here knows which side is best. It's the few who spoil it for everyone else who choose otherwise.

[Jake]

Hey! I read the first comment from A YF as a joke.

[Jake]

Does Lockland know where the line is?

[Paul SF]

It read like a joke, until he continued to defend the statement.

Putting a smiley face may indicate you're joking, but when you continue to argue the point of your "joke" for 10 posts, it kind of kills the humor.

[LocklandSF]

Jake, I only fire when fired upon.

[LocklandSF]

I will admit, I shouldn't let trolls get to me, but hey, I'm only human.