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Friday, November 10, 2006

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Heh, just posted in the other thread. But ya, I don't know. Seems very short-sighted of them if this is the only reason..

If this is true (please, God, let it be so), I think it's because the Sox truly beleive he's not only the best pitcher on the market this year, but he has as good an opportunity as any other pitcher they could acquire to be a top starter for years to come.

I'm ecstatic right now.

(If only someone other than Buster Olney had reported it. Gammons? Bueller?)

Upon further review ...

There are reasons to believe this bid is legitimate.

If it's not,

1. The commissioner's office could exercise the obtuse language of posting law to declare the bid not in good faith and award it to the second-place team (the Yankees or Rangers probably) anyway.

2. Japanese players will avoid Boston like the plague.

3. The Red Sox damage their good will with Japanese baseball, in general, and only delay the inevitable -- Matsuzaka signing with the Yanks when he becomes a free agent next year.

If the bid is indeed that high, perhaps the Sox are looking at the opening of the Japanese market as a way to offset the cost. Granted, there was already a sizable Dominican contingent in Boston when Pedro arrived, but he had a huge impact on the Sox' Latin American program when he signed with the Sox (the Globe even printed game stories in Spanish after his starts).

Lots of reasons for this to be a legitimate bid. No good reasons why this wouldn't be.

At risk of hogging the thread, the Boston Globe gets in touch with its sources:

"That wouldn't surprise me one bit. I have heard the Red Sox were very competitive. It would be a strike against the Yankees, who have been considered the front-runner, and it [would] show Red Sox fans the team is serious about rebuilding [after] what happened last season."

Sheffield has been traded to the Tigers for 3 prospects and will sign an extension with the tigers

If this is true, good for the Red Sox...a word of caution from our friend Peter:

http://www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html

...paul, you're as giddy as a schoolgirl just asked to her first dance...

...if it's a legit bid, congratulations, and good luck with the negotiations...if it's not and can be proven, as i suspect given your team's lack of resolve with these situations in the past, baseball should punish the sox severely, including banning them from participating in the next auction...

...your comment that the sox managment actually has to "show Red Sox fans the team is serious about rebuilding" is very telling, and is proof of what i've been trying to tell you on other threads: while your management did a good job to pull together a team that won a wild card and ws in 04, they have little else to show since then beyond the hype and "promise" of next year, and your need for reassurance that your mgmt is doing their job is a bummer...you criticize the yankee mgmt for bad moves, and they've made a bunch of them, but at least i know their hearts are in the right place for us fans...

Picking cherries is fun dc. The important part is rebuilding after last year. No honest SF is going to tell you that last year wasn't a disappointment. None. Not one. Find one. Go, right now.

I love the word hype. It's so balanced and objective.

...quo, you sf's have a real problem sticking to the point...i'm not saying that you guys weren't disappointed...what i said was that it is a bummer that your mgmt has to reassure you that they're doing their job...shouldn't that be a given?...hype is something all the teams do, or they'd never sell any tickets, but your team's level of hype almost approaches brainwashing...i.e. "get excited about wily mo and coco, and beckett and shilling are going to go head to head for the cy young"...please...the steady decline since the ws win ain't pickin' cherries...a better example of cherry picking is selectively responding to some of my posts and ignoring the ones you can't argue with...

You want hype, dc? Derek Jeter. Captain Hype. Finally, this year, unlike most years when the NYY and the NY media talked him up, he is actually, finally, a legitimate MVP candidate. For several years, he was the third or fourth best SS in the AL, but he was built up to the degree where most YFs (not all, for sure, and the ones here are generally better educated on statistics/defensive metrics/whathaveyou) believed he was the best of all. Not even close. SFs believed it about Nomar, even when most/all years he was #2 or #3.

Hype happens everywhere. It happens in NY right now. It happens in STL right now (to a lesser degree). To limit it to the Sox is foolish. And honestly, the Cy was pretty well out of reach of both B and S to start the year, but I think even most YFs here would agree that a 1-2 punch of Schilling and Beckett SHOULD have been quite formidable in 2006, barring injury concerns. It didn't work out. There really wasn't a whole LOT of hype about Wily Mo that I can recall. What I remember being "told" was that he would show impressive power and strike out a lot, while possibly showing marginal improvements in plate discipline and batting average. Check on all of those things. And if you were paying attention during Crisp's short ML career in Cleveland, you'd know that there was legitimate reason to believe he would replace Damon with about 90% of the production at 50% of the cost, freeing up money to be spent elsewhere.

And what was the FO supposed to do? "Crisp is not going to be near as good as Damon." "We got Wily Mo because he'll hopefully stop getting into SO contests with Adam Dunn just due to lack of proximity." "Josh Beckett = blisters." "Curt Schilling's ankle has actually fallen completely out of his leg/foot." Great PR. It is to sell the tickets, you're absolutely right about that. But the "hype" was not completely unfounded, even though I can't disagree about its presence in the first place.

Brainwashing?
Pride. Power. Pinstripes. A lot of "pride" in Giambi's "power" suiting up in those pinstripes? Sheffield when he was still in town? Pavano? Kevin Brown? Heck, even RJ.

I think the reference to reassurance of them doing their jobs had everything to do with the complete lack of any leaks/information from the FO so far this offseason. I know they're working hard, I have no concerns about that. But as a rule, SFs and YFs are impatient for who the next player is going to be, what's going to be the next big move? SFs have gotten basically zero information or reputable rumors at this point, so something like this (albeit, Olney is still a somewhat questionable source) is one part of the overall news we're looking forward to this offseason.

Something to consider: some posts just aren't worth responding to (mine included), due to lack of worthy content or excessive 'homerism', or an absolute lack of recognition of another party's valid points.

Quo says almost it all, but I just wanted to point out that the quote that dc rips out of context wasn't even Paul's. Paul was quoting Cafardo quoting his source.

Jeez, dc.

quo, i agree about not responding to bad posts, but i'll respond to you and sf anyway, because i [sincerely] think you're one of the good guys, and good-intentioned:

on hype:
you said: "...Hype happens everywhere. It happens in NY right now. It happens in STL right now (to a lesser degree). To limit it to the Sox is foolish..."
yep, my post said: "...hype is something all the teams do, or they'd never sell any tickets, but your team's level of hype almost approaches brainwashing..."
jeter is overhyped, that's true, but to some extent you guys under-appreciate him because you don't see him every day, and most importantly he's a yankee and not a red sox...he also tends to make the "special" plays or at bats, and fair or not, that has started to give him a bit of a legend status in ny....being on a handful of ws winners hasn't hurt him either...as for nomar, you may be a rare fan...i know plenty of sox fan's who were rabid about their feelings that he was the #1 ss, until he made himself unwelcome and got shipped out of town...

on the other yankees:
i know, i know, we get it...giambi and sheffield are alleged cheaters...sheffield's gone so it won't be any fun beating him up anymore...and i know all about the yankee acquisition failures...in fact, i wrote a fairly lengthy post about failure and success a few days ago, and got into a sparring match with paul over it...of course, that final post didn't get responded to...and to be fair, while the yankees have probably made the most bad moves in the past few years, all teams mess up...i got pavano [who you wanted by the way], you got clement...so?

on responding to posts:
you and i had a pretty good exchange the other day about free agent greed...you made some excellent points, and while we didn't necessarily agree on some of the details, i enjoyed the conversation...i made a final post, but maybe you didn't see it...i seem to make the final post on a lot of threads...but i've also received some jabs [not necessarily from you] intended exclusively to denigrate me or my opinion rather than present a valid counterpoint...petty, and those are not worth responding to...good thing i'm not sensitive...

sf, how is the quote out of context?
...and it was paul who posted it that way...i only commented on the quote...you got me though, i did incorrectly attribute the quote to him...but he may as well have said it...the absence of any other point in his post suggests that somebody, perhaps him too since he thought it was significant enough to select from the article and present to us, actually believes it's true that the sox mgmt believes they need to convince you they're doing their job...jeez sf...

As far as Nomar and Jeter are concerned, during Nomar's prime, you'd never have found me advocating a trade in order to land Tejada or A-Rod to replace him. Realistically, their production and defense (this point mostly for A-Rod) was better than Nomar's, and I could admit that, but that didn't mean anything about whether I wanted him to be replaced in Boston. I think you could say the case was/is the same with Jeter in NY.

Pavano v. Clement. Clement gave us one full healthy season in which he had a largely successful first half, on a 3 year contract for less money. I'll take Clement any day.

The point as far as the other Yankees are concerned had everything to do with your point about brainwashing and the words I bolded. Anyone who has real "pride" in those characters IS brainwashed. Is it convenient for my point that Giambi/Sheffield are cheaters and have bismirched the already questionable integrity of the game of baseball? Sure. But it doesn't make my responding point about brainwashing weak because there are facts like that available for me to exploit.

I enjoyed our conversation about FA greed as well. I didn't feel that my points needed to be defended/reiterated again, but I did read your final post on the subject.

i did incorrectly attribute the quote to him

dc: this is the only point. Paul didn't say what you accused him of saying, and you characterized his comment based on this misattribution. I think it was fair to point that out.

quo, uh ok, i guess we didn't have any unfinished business on the FA greed topic after all...

sf, you got my mea culpa...don't keep beating that dead horse...so do you agree he was making some point by posting the quote? if so, what was it?...

The point was that the Boston Globe was saying their sources thought such a bid was likely. I merely posted it because it was the first mainstream Boston media comment on the Olney story. The quote was the only part of Cafardo's blurb that was of any interest in the matter.

Nothing more, nothing less.

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