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Wednesday, May 24, 2006

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Colter Bean has been designated for assignment. Rumor mill has it that Kevin Reese will be moved down to make room for none other than Ramiro Mendoza. Excellent move for the following reason if it occurs->
17.1 IP 11 H 0.52 ERA 0.75 WHIP.

He didn't just stare that ball out, he stared down Proctor after he looked at it sail. Wonder if "Protector of the Game" aka "Josh Beckett" approved. Punks.

A most hearty welcome back to Ramiro! Yanks gonna party like it's 1999.

yeah, no doubt Beckett would've flipped out. Who on the Yankees cares enough to react strongly? Or even react at all? Goof on him all you want, but the fact is that Beckett brings more passion to the game (even if it's sometimes misdirected) than anyone wearing pinstripes in 2006.

If I remember correctly 1999 was an excellent vintage. Much better than 2004 when everything turned out sour :-b

That's a nonstarter, alrk. You don't need to act like a meathead to be passionate about what you do, thankfully.

Airk,
If you seriously are saying that guys like Jeter, Mo, Posada, and yes, even Damon don't bring passion to the game you must be totally deluded. They just show their passion in a different way than mouthing off to Shea Hillenbrand or getting tough w/Ryan Howard. The guy is punk. Bring on the blisters.

that's certainly true, YF, but even in the non-meathead moments (they exist, I swear!), Beckett is one of those players who seethes competitiveness. The eyes, body language, etc. In years past I thought of Posada in that way, but this season seems different. Maybe it's just the team tightening up to hold it together through a worrying stretch of injuries and ineffectiveness from RJ.

Or maybe I'm wrong, as surely any YF will tell me I am, and the 2006 yankees are actually the epitome of a captivatingly charismatic group of guys with a palpable, overwhelming will to win, destined to capture the imagination of even the most surly and jaded of baseball fans.

Yeah, don't confuse passion with self-righteousness. Having said that, sometimes its nice to have a self-righteous fool on the team, too. Manny should get plunked for what he did. And I don't understand why he did it? It wasn't a game-changing homer - the lead was too large at that stage, and he has no previous bad blood with Proctor. What's his problem? Showboating is never cool, even though too many US pro sportsmen don't seem to realize this.

so... showboating off the plate = crime against humanity (apparently it's better just to NOT EVEN KNOW YOU HIT A HOME RUN).

calling for plunkings and pitches to be thrown at the opposition's players on purpose = totally an awesome and acceptable thing to do! :)

Does showboating include taking third inning curtain calls? I don't remember any YFs complaining about those in recent weeks, despite at least two of them at Yankee Stadium.

Third-inning curtain calls are as dumb as Manny's showboating. I think that in general fans are waaaay too liberal with the curtain calling....unless it's a game-changing shot in a late inning it ain't call-worthy.

Not sure why showboating and curtain-calling are being compared. One's initiated by the player, the other by the crowd. Am I missing something here? It would be hilarious, however, if a player started his own curtain call. It's be a very Schillingesque moment.

My unnecessary attacks at Curt are pathological at this point.

Right on, YM. In general I don't like CCs ever. I find them totally unnecessary even after momentous events. But that's just me.

Curtain calls may be initiated by the fans, Nick, but of course players are under no obligation to answer. I never met a fan that held a grudge because a player didn't answer one. Players should know that answering one so early in a game could be seen as an atagonism, intended or not. So they aren't entirely different: a CC still requires active participation from the player. That's not to make them equivalent, but CCs are, to me, antagonistic and unnecessary, no matter who who you say initiates them.

So long as the subject of CCs was brought up, I was wondering if Fenway fans are a bit more conservative? Granted, I haven't seen a whole lot of Sox games, but I have a hard time remembering even a single CC.

I've been to a ton of Sox games and I would never say they don't occur (they do), but they are not a staple, in any way, like they are in the Bronx.

I think SF needs to come to terms with the fact that this is 2006, and that accepting a "curtain call"--one requested by the fans and not intended to show-up the opposition--has become a standard and entirely acceptable practice, and one that doesn't seem to offend the overwhelming majority of today's players. That's a lot different than standing at home plate, gazing at your own dinger, and then staring down an opposing pitcher. I don't think we need to live in some kind of time warp. If Yankee fans want to show appreciation to one of their own on a big hit, that seems completely fine to me. (But maybe Sox fans are still ticked that they were snubbed by Ted Williams?) If the Fenway faithful want to give Papi a giant ovation after a big dinger--whenever it comes--and he wants to acknowledge their applause, I really have no problem with that. It seems like, after the strike, and with this steroid scandal, it's the least baseball players can do to respond to the fans in a positive way, to help build a connection between players, team, and the community. That may not be "old school," but to me it's good for everyone except curmudgeons, and a change in the game (like the wild card, like the expanded divisions) that we should come to accept as positive.


I'll say it again: ABH-Rod is so used to choking, he doesn't realize when he's come through.

I am guessing YF is the type to grant standing O's at every cut-rate Broadway musical he attends. And him implying me a curmudgeon?! Ha! What was that saying about the pot and the kettle?

The point is that CCs, like gazing at home runs, might affect some players, they might see it as antagonistic. I didn't see last night's game, so I am speaking more generally about this issue. Since it sounds like Manny may have also stared down the pitcher, I should clarify my position, which is that admiring one's own home run also seems to be slightly less offensive than staring down a pitcher, which borders on just plain stupid, from a team safety standpoint.

How could a simple tip of the cap in response to the crowd "affect" a player? Could SF provide an example of a player rattled by this? That's an awfully thin-skinned player.

Following the strike, players were specifically instructed, and for good reason, to augment their contact with the fans. The tipping of the cap falls quite well within this edict, and I just have a hard time seeing it as unsportsmanlike.

And for the record, I don't go to musicals.

Oh SF, let me assure you, Manny gave Proctor the "you just got punked" stare after he ripped his shot. I tend to not have a lot of ill will towards Manny. I actually kind of like him, he's entertaining and good for the game. When he does his usual "pause and admire" after hitting a home run, I think that's just Manny being Manny. But last night pissed me off. Proctor is about as humble as it gets in the Yank bullpen. Last night was not Manny being Manny, it was Manny being a prick.

SF is not seriously comparing Manny's show-boating to accepting a curtain. I refuse to believe he is.

Onto the more the legitimate argument, that of the liberal use of standing ovations at Broadway shows. The last time anyone from my theater-snobbish family granted such an honor was during the glorious days of John Barrymore, and that's because Grandfather Nick-YF was a tad sauced and found Barrymore's Richard III properly pissed as well, which created an "illusory" (grandad's word) connection between actor and audience for that fleeting moment. But as a rule, my family sits in silence, with arms crossed, at the end of performances. We are a happy bunch.

I am not comparing the two, Nick. I am saying that curtain calls are indiscriminately doled out many times, particularly at Yankee Stadium, as YM agrees. And further, CCs, despite what YF says, could be construed as "showing someone up", no matter what the intention. Some players (particularly pitchers) ARE thin-skinned (see Beckett, Josh), so it's something to think about. But no, it's not the same as Manny giving a pitcher a glare after a home run. As I said, that's plain stupid, possibly dangerous.

CCs early in the game are a bit silly, but Nick and YF are right in noting that they're initiated by the fans, and while the player who's being called out for the cap tip doesn't have to leave the dugout...well, actually, he sort of does have to. I'm thinking of Beltran, here, back in April when he hit one of his first dings and the Mets faithful called him out, and he came *this close* to not answering the call. Julio Franco basically had to pick him up and throw him out there b/c otherwise Beltran would have been absolutely crushed by the fans and media the next day for fan snubbage. Unfair, and again, silly, but nature of the beast now.

On the other hand, kooky Manny has zero obligation to stare down Proctor like that. It was just bullyish. I mean, if that was Rocket, back in the day, would Manny have stared? No. B/c the next AB would have seen a heater/bat shard flung at his coconut a la Piazza. Maybe the Yanks pitchers need to get a little old school themselves and not stand for that shit.

Re Beckett's competitiveness, here's an interesting bit I found (admittedly from a rotonerd site). It would be fun to watch Burnett and Beckett square off when they're both healthy...:

'One of my favorite stories of the off-season is a scout telling me “at some point, Burnett and Beckett will face off and Burnett will shove the ball up Beckett’s ass. Beckett will crumble because he can’t handle the slightest challenge. That’s why I’d rather have Burnett.”'

"could be construed as "showing someone up", no matter what the intention." Again, just speculation. And in any case, my response is, TOUGH. if you can't watch a player tip his cap to the crowd without getting rattled, too bad for you. This is now part of the game, and not a bad part. Grow up. I'm not even opposed to a little bit of showboating after a dinger. Papi often admires his shots--far more than any Yankee. I'm not enamored with this practice, but it has become a part of the game as well--really a part of our society. (Manny, last night, pushed the envelope I think a bit too far, however.)

As for Yankee fans and their "indiscriminate" cheering, boo-hoo. Do New Yorkers need SF's personal approval to grant a standing ovation? Boston fans can choose to stand whenever they want. That, historically, they've been hostile to even their own best players (ahem, Ted Williams), is their problem.

In NY, achievement gets rewarded, and lack of it gets the opposite response. That's the way it works here. It's the personality of the city. Love it or leave it.


YF, I'm not sure you can say the fan base was particularly hostile to Williams. The media, while claiming to speak for the fan base, certainly were. But I didn't live in the 40s and 50s, so what do I know? Also, Teddy Ballgame more than made up for the "gods don't answer letters" snub with his 5-minute-long cap tip at the 99 All-Star Game.

Interesting quote, Spidey, considering thus far, it's been Beckett that's shone under pressure and Burnett that's crumbled (under the weight of his own injuries) in the pressure-cooker of Toronto...

Didn't see the Manny stuff, so I have to reserve comment on that. But curtain calls for Jason Giambi in the 3rd inning -- silly.

Now that I think about it, there were the spitting incidents and whatnot between Williams and the fans, so I take that back.

I wonder if Manny doesn't get a little more into the rivalry than a lot of players and took out his overall hostility to the Yankees on Proctor. Just a thought.

I like when Manny admires his shots.

I hate it when players do it to us.

Funny how that works.

Yah, I'm not saying the latest results at all support what the scout was saying about Burnett and Beckett, but I just thought it was interesting.

Cut the crap, YF. Enough with the "grow up" BS. It's a lame line, and about the third time you've thrown it out, with no justification. How many times do you have to pull that out? This is a reasonable discussion, why not engage it reasonably? I have taken no ridiculous positions here. Jesus f-ing Christ.

What is unreasonable about pointing out that today's athletes are hypersensitive, and that a curtain call could be seen as "showing someone up"? Seriously, what the fuck is your problem?

SF: What is your problem? The "grow up" line was aimed at the immature player who gets rattled by an opposing hat tip--not you. And anyway, I wrote nothing more inflammatory than that your position was curmudgeonly--which it is. Then you raise the ante with that thing about me and musicals, and complain about me? Spare us the false indignation.

My favorite beer is Harp. Mmmm.. Beer.

Out of curiosity, did Proctor say anything about Manny's stare? Or are us fans making something out of this, acting indignant when the player didn't give a crap? That would be ironic, no?

From Newsday:

'Proctor, who also pitched the sixth, called his second inning of work "pathetic" and lamented giving up the blast to Ramirez that allowed the Sox to get within three runs. "I threw it right down the middle," he said. "If I make my pitch there, he's out."

Proctor avoided saying anything inflammatory when asked about Ramirez's display. "I'm not going to answer that question," he said.'

Seems like Proctor was irked but not so irked that he was gonna make a big deal of it.

My bad, YF - I misread, and acted hypersenstively. How a propos...

A truce! Apologies if anything was written as to be misconstrued....

A rookie like Proctor, after walking 2 guys to lead off the 8th and then getting tagged, probably felt he was in no position to start a war of words with a hof- aliber player--especially after a win. Much better to let it slide with a no comment, and let his teammates choose to deal with it, or not.

can't find any info on the web about it but proctor was a little overzealous when he struck out manny in ny two weeks ago. if anyone remembers please back me up here. it was a fist pump and a motion towards the plate.
a prime example of showboating is when a-rod does his fake hustle thing. where he lifts his heels to his ass as he's rounding the bases.

I don't know if A-Rod qualifies as a showboat. I like when he gets a random single and slaps his hands together at first base like he just hit a walkoff home run. He's so damn earnest it's painful, but I don't think it's to show anyone up.

I wonder whether A-rod seems so earnest and sometimes appears to have issues with clutch situations is that, before coming to NY, he wasn't accustomed to critical situations that were difficult for someone of his talent to succeed in. He sometimes seems like a little boy playing baseball. Then again, there's the slapping incident.

bostonsportsmedia.com:

"Scott Proctor, supplanting Tanyon Sturtze as Torre's go-to guy in the seventh inning, brushed Manny Ramirez back, then struck out the slugger to strand two runners. 'I knew I could get him away. I've done it before,' Proctor said."

Proctor is an ass for saying that. Its one thing to do what he did (good for him), but its another thing to mouth off in the media after the fact. By the way, isn't he the one who almost blew the game last night?

thank you cape. the high and tight pitch came on the "pop papi" headline day. there's more to it than manny just watchin his shot.

Well, Cape Codder, that could explain it. Still, staring down a pitcher is dumb, if you ask me. As for Adam - what do you mean by "critical situations that were difficult for someone of his talent to succeed in"? Are you defending A-Rod, or attacking him?

What I've always found so amusing by the hate towards the guy is that he doesn't seem like someone you can hate. He's on course to be one of the five best offensive players in the history of the game, yet he's so earnest and so...insecure despite all his ability that it's pathetic, in an endearing way. Bless him. I don't think I could hate a character like that even if he played for a team I hated. (I'm not going to get into the contract, no way...)

Mariano was quoted as saying that Manny just did what he has done his whole career, so it was no big deal. Maybe Yank fans should learn from their "grown up" team, instead of following the example of the execrable sports writers.

I like Manny's showboating there. Proctor had been lights out till that appearance, it seems like it could be a good way to get in to Proctor's head, and not saying it work, but Manny jacked another off of him last night.

Perhaps with some luck this could be the start of a new trend (from Proctor that is).

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